CGP Community Stories

Douglas Deer, November 26, 2008

Title

Douglas Deer, November 26, 2008

Subject

Alpacas
Baptist
Boy scouts
Camillus, New York
Cheyenne-Arapahoe
Christian
Clairmont-Ferrand
Colgate-Rochester Divinity School
Cooperstown, New York
Dupree, South Dakota
Easter Sunrise service
Europe
First Baptist Church
Foreign study
Franklinville, New York
"God is Love"
Green Lake, Wisconsin
Homer, New York
Kalamazoo College
Kalamazoo, Michigan
Lake Front Park
Lakota
Lionel trains

Description

Douglass Mount Deer is the minister for the First Baptist Church in Cooperstown, New York. He was born in August 9, 1951, in Southington, Connecticut, to Gordon Spencer Deer and Phyllis Shepherd Deer. Mr. Deer and his family moved several times throughout his childhood because his father was also a Baptist minister. Initially, Deer had no intention of following in his father's footsteps, but after spending time as a YMCA counselor amongst the Lakota in western South Dakota, he realized that the ministry was calling him, too.

Deer first went to South Dakota during college, through a summer program with the YMCA. He worked as a camp counselor and organizer in Frazier, South Dakota on the Cheyenne River Reservation. There are eight reservations in South Dakota, all of which are occupied by members of the Sioux or Lakota. While traditional Lakota culture and religion survive on these reservations, many of the inhabitants are Christian. This is in large part due to the efforts of Christian missionaries going back to the 1800s. Missionary work continues to this day in certain parts of the state.

One church that has undertaken missionary efforts not just in South Dakota, but also in other states, is the Baptist church. Douglass Deer was raised in the Baptist church and is himself a minister. Baptist ministers enjoy relationships with their congregations that are quite different from the relationships of clergy and congregation, rather than by being appointed and then ordered to a specific location by a bishop or other high level member of the clergy. This means that as long as the arrangement is mutually satisfactory. Baptist ministers may remain with a specific church community as long as they desire.

Mr. Deer's interview provides a number of insights into the workings of the Baptist church and the relationship between minister and congregation. Additionally, some of his most engaging and informative stories concern the times he spent in South Dakota with the Lakota. On several occasions he offers interesting observations about how the Lakota balance their traditional beliefs and customs with their new Christian ones. This balance is exemplary of a cultural middle ground through which the Lakota have negotiated their religious identities.

In transcribing the interview with Mr. Deer I had edited out vocalizations such as "um," "uh," or "like," as they were irrelevant to the content of the interview. I have however tried to preserve the rhythm of Deer's speech, which is quite rapid, by leaving in false starts and moments where he interrupts his own thought process. I have also chosen to edit out portions of myself engaging in active listening. Overall, the interview was a pleasant and light-hearted affair, so I have noted the times when Mr. Deer and I laughed about one thing or another. Unfortunately, it is impossible through a transcription to convey the emotions with which the words are delivered. As such, researchers are highly encouraged to listen to the complete audio recordings rather than relying solely upon the transcription.

Creator

Johanna Blume

Publisher

Cooperstown Graduate Program, State University of New York-College at Oneonta

Date

2008-11-26

Rights

New York State Historical Association Library, Cooperstown, NY

Online Submission

No

Interviewer

Johanna Blume

Interviewee

Douglas Deer

Location

19 Elm St., Cooperstown, NY

Transcription

Cooperstown Graduate Program
Oral History Project Fall 2008
JB = Johanna Blume
DD = Doug Deer

[START OF TRACK 1, 0:00]

JB:
This is Johanna Blume of the Cooperstown Graduate Program with Doug Deer of the First Baptist Church in Cooperstown, New York. It’s November 26, 2008 and we are in Doug Deer’s home at19 Elm Street in Cooperstown. Ok, if you could please state your full name.
DD:
Douglas Mount Deer.
JB:
Were you named after anyone?
DD:
My mother’s maiden name was Mount. So it’s a family name. So over at NYSHA for example you have the famous Eel Spearing picture, that’s by a relative of mine. William Sidney Mount. He didn’t have any children I guess so it’s not a direct line but he’s like a relative of – a brother of an ancestor.
JB:
So where does the Mount name originate from?
DD:
New Jersey, probably English, because that side of the family has a lot of English ancestry. And Deer was a German name, Duhr, that was changed, oh, I think it was like my great, or great-great grandfather came over from Germany, and they changed it to Americanize it from Duhr to Deer so it’s not really an Indian name.
JB:
When were you born?
DD:
I was born August 9, 1951, in Southington, Connecticut.
JB:
Do you know the specific hospital you were born in?
DD:
No. [Laughter.]
JB:
Fair enough.
DD:
I think it was whatever hospital is in Southington.
JB:
And is Southington- is that by New York City?
DD:
No, it’s up in the middle of Connecticut. My father was the minister of the First Baptist Church there. And then we moved when I was about five years old. So I don’t remember too much about Southington.
JB:
And where did you move to?
DD:
Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania. And I lived there up until the middle of fifth grade, so I kind of consider that to be my hometown. That’s where I went to elementary school. And then we moved to Camillus, New York and we were there from when I was in the middle of fifth ‘til the end of ninth grade. Then we moved to Manchester, New York, which is just outside Rochester. And that’s where I graduated from high school.
JB:
So you moved quite a bit then. Was that because of any particular reason?
DD:
Yes, that was because my father was a minister and so different churches would call him to come and be the pastor there
JB:
And did you mind all the moving?
DD:
The first one I didn’t know about really when I moved to Wilkes Barre. [Laughter.] I really was disappointed when we moved in the middle of fifth grade because in Wilkes Barre they had a really good school system and they had what they called the extra work class, [laughter] to make it so that other people wouldn’t be jealous of you for being in it, some places they call them the ace class or advanced. So different kids around Wilkes Barre had gotten into one school system. In fact they had the third and fourth grade class together and the fifth and sixth grade class together because it was a small number of students so it was somewhat accelerated with the extra projects and things. And then when we moved to Camillus it was just in a regular class so it was like going back a couple of years of school so school wise it was hard to move then.

JB:
Well, what are the names of your parents?
DD:
My father’s name was Gordon Spencer Deer, and he died, um- would’ve been, um- about- 1974. And my mother is Phyllis Mount. Or was. Phyllis Shepherd Deer. She dropped the Mount. She lives up in Schenectady now.
JB:
And you mentioned that your father was a minister; did your mother do anything?
DD:
She was a homemaker all the time I was growing up. And after my father died she started working some different things. She worked at Green Lake, Wisconsin’s our American Baptist campground, for the national one. And she worked for the division of world mission support in Iowa, and then moved out to California and worked in the American Baptist Office of the West out there. So she worked for a number of years after my father passed away. And now she’s retired. [Pause.]
JB:
Do you-
DD:
I have four sisters. [Laughter.]
JB:
[Laughter.] That was the next question. Do you have any siblings?
DD:
Two older sisters, and two younger sisters.
JB:
And what are their names?
DD:
Carol’s the oldest; she’s married and lives in Ohio. Nancy’s the next oldest, lives in Madison, Wisconsin. Edie’s the one younger than me, is married and lives in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And my youngest sister, Margie, is married and lives in Albany, New York.
JB:
So you’re really all over the place. [Laughter.]
DD:
Yeah. [Chuckles.]
JB:
That’s nice though. To have a nice big family and lots of different places to visit. [Pause.] Did you guys get along when you grew up?
DD:
Well, my next youngest sister and I didn’t get along particularly well. [Chuckles.] So we were always, you know, arguing and picking on each other. My next oldest sister would pick on me until I was about in junior high and then she wasn’t physically able to do that any more.
JB:
So I guess it’s close to Thanksgiving, did you guys have any family traditions when you were growing up, about the holidays?
DD:
When we were growing up, my cousins on my father’s side and our family would alternate Thanksgivings, so we would see them every year for Thanksgiving. So we were really close to them. One set of cousins. Since then, with our family we usually go to my wife’s parents’ for Thanksgiving.
JB:
Christmas?
DD:
Christmas was just at our family’s when I was growing up, and then usually it’s at our house because we can usually not get away at Christmas since we have a Christmas Eve service at church. And so most of the time when our kids were growing up my wife’s parents and a couple of her brothers would come down and stay over night Christmas eve and be here for Christmas. But now- it’s more often just us, alone. Or sometimes our daughter, [they] would get home, or occasionally our son and his wife and our two grandkids.
JB:
So how many kids do you have then?
DD:
We have two children. David is married and lives in Seattle, Washington. And they have our granddaughter, Lillian is four, and Daniel is two, our grandson. Katherine is married, and lives in Homer, New York. She’s a veterinarian.
JB:
Were pets a big part of your family growing up and now?
DD:
We had a dog when I was growing up. And then most of the time since we’ve been married. First our son had a dog, and then our daughter had a dog, and now we have a dog. [Laughter.]
JB:
Dog people.
DD:
Yup, dog people.
JB:
Nice. [Pause.] So where did you go to church then, as a child?
DD:
Usually it was First Baptist Church of wherever we were.
JB:
Did everyone go together then?
DD:
Yes. Yeah, we always went.
JB:
Well what was school like for you growing up?
DD:
Well in elementary school it was really good. As I said, there was what they called the extra work class, and so we had like- we would start French in second grade. And you would do projects like- book report type things, at a younger age than most kids usually start doing those kinds of projects. And- so school was good. [Pause.] And at least one of the years my sister was in the same class because my next youngest sister was one year behind me in school and she was also in those classes so when the, for example, third and fourth grade class was together we were both in the same classroom.
JB:
Did that contribute to the sibling rivalry?
DD:
There was probably friction, you know. In school, I guess, it probably worked okay. Most of the time.
JB:
What was your favorite subject? In school.
DD:
I liked all my subjects in school. I was really good in science and math. All the way through. I was valedictorian of my class. And my next youngest sister was valedictorian the next year. They gave out a bookend when you were valedictorian so then we had matching bookends to give my parents. [Laughter.]
JB:
Did you have a favorite teacher?
DD:
I don’t think so. I usually got along with most of the teachers. And I did really well on the SATs and Regent’s. I usually got hundreds on most of the Regent’s. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the New York Regent’s system?
JB:
No, it’s-
DD:
It’s a statewide test.
JB:
-a little different where I come from.
DD:
No, I got – I think in the math – a 99 on my first Regent’s. We took those exams in the eighth grade instead of ninth grade. And I was sick and I had to take it at home and I mislabeled something like sin x equals .444 and I put sin x equals that instead of x equals that, so she had to take a point off.
JB:
Little mistakes.
DD:
A little mistake, but- [Pause] So I did really well in school. In math and sciences in particular, but everything was pretty good. [START OF TRACK TWO,10:00]
JB:
Did you ever think you might pursue a career in math or science?
DD:
Yeah, I started off as a physics major. I didn’t really envision myself as being a minister. [Laughter.] I really liked math and science so I was thinking of probably- maybe being a teacher. So I went to Kalamazoo College, which back in the mid 70s- early 70s was supposed to be the best physics college in the country. I actually got a scholarship from General Motors that covered a lot of my school because of the science tests and things. So I started off taking a lot of physics and math. [Pause] I lost interest in the math after the first year. The calculus got so abstract that it wasn’t like numbers any more where you could envision where you’re doing it. It was concepts about numbers. And that just was not interesting to me at all. [Pause.] So, after the first year of college when I had taken a lot of that- [Pause.] I think it was first year, or second year. Anyways, I stopped taking as much science and math. And then I also- In college- at Kalamazoo College, they have a quarter system, so instead of it being semesters there’s 4 quarters in a year and you go three out of the four quarters. They’ve changed it just recently, but this was their system, which was unusual back then, but it worked pretty well because it kept the expenses down, because you always had the school running and there were always one quarter of the kids off-campus. And in the second year of- in your sophomore year, you did what they called career service, in the spring quarter. And so what I was- I looked at a whole bunch of offerings they had at the guidance office, and was looking- something- for like teaching, since I was thinking at that point of being a teacher. And then one of them said “Working on a Sioux Indian reservation in South Dakota: rugged living conditions.” Well I’d never been west before. I thought Michigan was going to be the west and that wasn’t really too much different than New York state other than being, you know- being a little flatter. And I hadn’t really met any Indian people before and it just sounded like a neat experience. So I went out to South Dakota and spent ten weeks in a really small community, which was all Sioux Indian people who lived there. And lived in the church building, which was also their YMCA building. Which out there is much different than the YMCA here, which is basically a gym program usually. And out there it’s a community org, so they would have monthly prayer meetings, and hymn sings. And it was the adults in the community who would be members of the YMCA, usually. So I was there as a YMCA volunteer and spent ten weeks on the reservation, basically I would just go around and visit people’s homes and organize games with the kids. That type of thing. And that was really a life changing experience for me. It’s seeing how important the church was out there, in a completely different culture. Because- I also went – in the junior year of Kalamazoo – to France. Kalamazoo also had a foreign study program where all the students went on foreign study someplace. To different countries. And France was not as different, culturally, as South Dakota is, actually. So, in South Dakota, most of the people on the reservation there, are Christian. They had a minister that preached in the Sioux language, Lakota, and they would sings hymns in Lakota, and just seeing how important it was for the people there, in a completely different culture than ours, of being Christian and what it meant to them, was really when I decided that I wanted to use my life in carrying on the Christian message. So even though I had grown up as a minister’s kid, and was a Christian, and I didn’t ever have- like sometimes people talk about bad experiences in church growing up – and I didn’t have bad experience, it was never a negative about my father being a minister, but I couldn’t see myself ever being a minister. And- [Pause.] So I wasn’t planning on doing that. But after I experienced how much it meant to them out there, I decided that that’s what I wanted to do. So then I went back to college, and as I said, in my junior year I went to France on foreign study and traveled around in Europe some, it was for like two quarters you would go on foreign study. And then, in the- let’s see after I graduated, that summer, I went back out to South Dakota, and they had a Sioux Indian YMCA camp, and I helped them get that set up, and we built a cook shack and so on. And I was the water front director for that summer. And then I went to Colgate-Rochester Divinity School for seminary. And that was a three-year program to become a minister. [Pause.]
JB:
Wow. [Pause.] That’s really amazing. [Pause.] Well, you know I’m from South Dakota. [Laughter.] So, it’s interesting.
DD:
So I really fell in love with South Dakota, the people there.
JB:
Do you ever go back?
DD:
Yup. [Pause.] Let’s see- then after the end of my first semester in seminary, I went out for Christmas and spent a month out there. And as you know it gets real cold out there, especially up in that part. It’s up- like in Rapid City it’s a little more civilized. This is way out. And there’s just- I didn’t have a car or anything so I was just- once I was out there, I was stuck there. And the YMCA director would come from Dupree, which is about sixty miles away, I think. So he’d bring me a five-gallon container of water and that would just have to last me until he whenever he might come again.
JB:
Jeez.
DD:
Because they didn’t have running water. And, so it was quite an experience. It’d be like forty degrees below zero, and snowing and stuff. They still had a wood stove in the church building, and some of the windows were broken, and it was not insulated, it was just a big room and a kitchen next to it. So I would wear my coat most of the time, even inside. And there was a wood stove, but there was no wood around. The nearest wood was a creek, Cherry Creek that ran about a mile away. Sometimes people would bring wood that they had cut and drop it off at the church. And that’s the only time I had wood, so I used it sparingly. [Laughter.]
JB:
Wow, that is rugged conditions.
DD:
It was quite rugged, but it was a really neat experience. And I got to visit in the Badlands, and the Black Hills. [Pause.] And then we did go back- let’s see- after Susan and I were married, none of the people there were able to come to our wedding which was in Rochester, New York at Colgate-Rochester in the chapel, and that was in 1975, in January. So that next summer, this was after my second year of seminary, we went out to Oklahoma, they were looking for someone who’d had experience working with Indian people to come out to help for the summer with a missionary that was out there. And that was with the Cheyenne-Arapahoe Indians, but they’re still a plains tribe so some similarities. So on our way out to Oklahoma from Rochester, we went through South Dakota so she could see the people there. And they had a surprise wedding reception for us. And then, after we were in Oklahoma for five years, I was the pastor of two churches there with the Cheyenne-Arapahoe, and so we took groups of kids up- I think it was two times to South Dakota, so that- up to the YMCA camp, so that they could experience what it was like on a reservation, because in Oklahoma there aren’t any reservations. There’s a lot of Indian people, but they don’t- they just live in certain sections of town usually. There’s not any reservation, so it doesn’t have the same traditions a lot of the Indian places up north do. And for example in Oklahoma, powwows are usually just drinking parties, whereas in South Dakota it as much more of a cultural experience with dancing and the drumming and so on. It was a positive thing. I mean, certainly there were people around who drank, but that wasn’t the focus of it. And not everybody there was drinking or anything like that. So we wanted the kids to go and be able experience what it was like for some traditional Indian customs and a powwow and see that in a positive light. So we took some of the groups of kids up there.
JB:
That’s really amazing. So did you meet your wife while you were in seminary then?
DD:
Yup, she was working at the YMCA in Rochester, and for one of my projects, we had- in our second year we would compare or visit- like work in a hospital setting and church setting and in a community setting. And so I thought it would be interesting to compare a city YMCA, in Rochester, with the YMCA in South Dakota, which was something completely different. And Susan was working at the YMCA doing children’s programs, like swimming, basically, and things. And so she’s the one that gave me the tour of the YMCA building. So that’s how we met. [Laughter.]
JB:
Oh, that’s really nice.
DD:
And we were married the next year, in 1975.
JB:
Oh, wow, so that was quick. [Laughter] So how did you ask her out first then?
DD:
We went ice-skating, in downtown Rochester.
JB:
[Pause.] So how did you wind up in Cooperstown, then?
DD:
Okay, after we’d been in Oklahoma for five years, we ended up moving back to New York state. Our son was born just before I graduated from seminary, in Rochester. And our daughter, Katherine was born in Oklahoma. So they were about, I think maybe three and six- three and five years old, or something, when we moved up to Franklinville, New York, which is kind of near Buffalo. And- so we were there for about five years. And then from Franklinville to McGraw which is south of Syracuse. And we were there for about five years. And then we ended up moving here to Cooperstown, about fifteen and a half years ago. So this is the place I’ve lived the longest of any place my whole life. [Laughter.]
JB:
[Laughter.] Wow, that’s really interesting, that it’s- You know- later in life that you’re able to- [Pause.]
DD:
Well it seems to- you know, different times, there’s different needs that churches have, and so on, and it just seems to be a really good match between me and the people here, and the church here in Cooperstown. It’s worked out well. In a Baptist church, the minister is there- it’s a mutual agreement between the church and [START OF TRACK THREE, 20:00] the minister. There isn’t anyone above us, like a bishop or something like that appoints you or moves you. So as long as it’s mutually agreeable to the church and the minister, you stay. And sometimes another church might call you and ask you to go there, then you would consider where you felt God was leading you and what the church wanted.
JB:
So do you think you might ever move on?
DD:
We never know. [Laughter.] But right now it looks like it’s a good match and so I’m happy being here. [Pause.] But for example, this house is the parsonage. So we don’t own this, this is owned by the church. So at some point if I were either to retire or something, then we have to move because we don’t live here. [Laughter.]
JB:
So how does- I’ve always been curious how that works. Is the house furnished, then, for you?
DD:
No, it was just basically empty, when we moved here. They’ve kept it up well. The parsonages that we’ve lived in have been fine houses to live in. So they own it and that’s part of your compensation. Instead of getting paid. About half of the ministers now probably have housing allowances and they rent their own place. And probably half of them are the more traditional set up where the church would own the parsonage and that’s where the minister would live. Some people like the fact of having a house because then you have equity so then if you did retire you would have something built up toward a house. The nice thing about a parsonage is, for example here it’s right next door to the church, which we like being next to the church. Some people prefer not to be. And it’s also hard- traditionally ministers tend to move more often. And so if you move every five years, if you were to buy a house, you ended up spending a lot of time trying to buy and sell under bad conditions because you don’t have a lot of time to sell it or to buy the new place. So it’s harder if you’re trying to do that all the time. So usually a parsonage can work better, other than the fact that you don’t have any equity built up.
JB:
So when did you get Blackberry here?
DD:
Blackberry was four years ago on Black Friday, the day after Thanksgiving, we were at our daughter’s in Ithaca, and she had gone to the S.P.C.A. and came back and said, “Oh, you gotta see this dog over at the S.P.C.A.” And I said, “No we don’t. No more dogs. We don’t need another dog.” Because if we go someplace it’s kind of hard because you have to find somebody to take care of them. And so- and then- she and my wife- I think that they went over first and then wanted me to come over or something, but anyways, they ended up getting me over to the S.P.C.A. and we saw him and he was just like he is now, very friendly when you saw him when you came in. He’s just bouncy and friendly and wanted a home but he’s so big. I think that’s why nobody could adopt him. He had been there for six weeks. But for little kids- I mean- even I have a hard time sometimes, if he’s pulling, hanging on to him. So he’s very friendly, but just big. And so, he’s a real good dog. So we ended up getting him.
JB:
What did you do for fun as a kid?
DD:
Let’s see… I rode my bicycle a lot. I liked riding my bike around, I was a paperboy so I ended up- it was a morning paper I would ride my bike and [do] papers a lot and everything. I liked playing with my friends. Swimming in the summer. I’d go to camp every summer.
JB:
Where did you go to camp?
DD:
Usually church camps and then Boy Scout camp because I was in Boy Scouts a lot. I got a lot of the aquatics merit badges in Scouts and took life saving and so on. [Pause.] So that’s always come in- helpful because I’ve been involved in church camping most of the years of my ministry. As I said, I never envisioned myself as a minister, so actually being a missionary was a good way to start off because when we went to Oklahoma, the church where we lived right next to, there were only a grandfather and two kids coming, it had really dwindled down a lot. and so we ended up building up a lot of the programs with the kids, but because they didn’t have the same, maybe expectations that maybe some other churches would, you could do things pretty much however you wanted to and whatever you wanted to. And so I could develop my own style there. And the churches I’ve been a part of since then have let me- given me a lot of freedom to do things the way I want so I don’t feel like I have to fit into a certain mold or- the services I think can be a little more free and creative, like maybe we’ll do a lot of creative things in the services.
JB:
Could you give me an example or two?
DD:
Oh, just like, oh, with the children’s sermons, for example – we have a children’s sermon every week – and using different props or visual things, different subjects for it that- I try to have the children’s sermon and the sermon fit to so that they have the same message. So actually the adults get as much or more out of the children’s sermon as the kids do. [Laughter.]
JB:
Well, that’s a good sermon then. [Laughter.] I always liked the children’s sermons, at all the churches I’ve gone to. You said you were a Boy Scout?
DD:
Yup, I started off- would’ve been- when I was about eleven years old, and my father was asked to be the chaplain at the Boy Scout camp up in the Adirondacks, and the family could stay with him, they had a cabin for the chaplain, but any kids that were Scout age had to be in Scout camp, so I resented that somewhat at first because I didn’t get to have family vacation, I had to quick join the Boy Scouts. So I did, and I would end up being with different troops, because the ones there came from all over the state. So I wasn’t with my local troop usually, it was just whatever ones happened to be there when my father was chaplain. But we went for a month at a time and usually the kids- the scouts went for two weeks so I’d be with two different groups. But I got to take lots of merit badges and have a lot of camping experience and that worked out pretty good. I didn’t make eagle, I got up through life scout which is the second highest. I had enough merit badges for eagle, but they weren’t the right ones and by the time I got to high school the last one or two I had were the citizenship ones and one of the requirements you had to go to the street corner and watch the cars go by and do something on the traffic and that just didn’t seem too exciting to me. I just couldn’t get myself to do it so, you know I probably -I should have done it just to complete it but- I didn’t.
JB:
Yeah, I have a similar experience with Girl Scouts. [Laughter.] Almost got there, and then- just didn’t.
DD:
It looks good on your record. You know, if you make Eagle Scout. But at that point, I just didn’t have the motivation to go down and count cars. [Laughter.] You know you do all these hard things go through all the harder merit badges, and get to something like that.
JB:
[Pause.] So, is there anything else you want to talk about? Any stories you have?
DD:
Well, one thing you didn’t ask me about, that I do, is my hobby is trains, Lionel trains. So, I have- the whole attic is filled with trains. So I’ve been collecting those for years. My father started about when I was born, and then after he died I inherited our family trains and I’ve added on to it. And so whenever somebody gives me something for my birthday or Christmas I use that towards trains. So there’s hundreds of trains, its- [Laughter.] I think it’s the neatest museum in Cooperstown. [Laughter.]
JB:
[Laughter.] So how did your father start collecting trains?
DD:
My father, for Christmas, had gotten a coupon for a pillow for my mother, and when he went down to get it at the store, he saw a train. And called her up to say, “can I get a train instead of the pillow?” [Laughter.] And then each year at Christmas when they’d go on sale afterwards he’d buy something for the next year at Christmas. And so we’d had a good sized layout that he showed me how to hook together and wire up things so that when I was a senior in high school I did it all by myself and then packed it up while I was in college. And then when he died I inherited all the things. Now it’s so extensive that it doesn’t just come up at Christmas, it’s up there all the time. I also collect train puzzles. So I have jigsaw puzzles and whenever I find one with a train on it, I glue it together and then I put it up on the wall of the train room so there’s hundreds of train puzzles that cover the walls and ceilings.
JB:
That’s really cool. So do you bring parts of it down for Christmas? Or just leave the whole thing up there running?
DD:
Sometimes I’ll put a little circle around the Christmas tree, especially if the grandkids are coming home or something now. We used to always have a huge tree when the kids were here, and we’d go out and chop one down every year. But because I also- particularly in Oklahoma we had two other churches, so that meant doing a tree in our house and a tree in each church. So I was doing three Christmas trees a year and got Christmas treed out by the time our kids left for college and weren’t coming home for Christmas every year. We just ended up just getting little artificial ones now. Because I’ve put enough out for a whole lifetime.
JB:
Where did you go to chop one down?
DD:
Here there was a family in the church that had Christmas trees in their yard and we could just go and get them. Other times at our church camp there were plenty of Christmas trees that were growing and we’d usually- that’s where we’d go and cut one down. And as our kids got older I could supervise and our daughter would get under there with a hatchet and chop down a tree.
JB:
So do you have a favorite train then?
DD:
Oh, it’s hard to say because there’s a lot of them. They each have stories, but because we were in Oklahoma, they had the Rock Island line out there, I’ve ended up starting collecting Rock Island ones, and I have all the [START OF TRACK FOUR, 30:00] Rock Island trains that Lionel made. So a couple of the tables are all Rock Island trains.
JB:
Well, if you wouldn’t mind, I would love to see up there at some point.
DD:
Yeah, I could show you up there. The only time I get to play with them probably is if people come to see them.
JB:
My uncle collected Lionel trains, for a long time when I was growing up, too. I think he sold them, a few years ago. But I always hoped that I would get them, but alas.
DD:
Well you can come over here and play trains.
JB:
Does the fascination with trains extend beyond the Lionel trains?
DD:
I don’t know anything about real trains. So it’s basically the Lionel. There’s another manufacturer, Marx, that made some, so there’s a few other trains that I have, too, but they’re mostly the Lionel. Probably just because that’s what we had when I was a kid that my father had gotten, so the connection with that’s what we had when I was growing up. Keeps that- [Pause.]
JB:
That’s nice though.
DD:
But it’s nice to have a hobby, like that, that, like at Christmas time, the kids from the church can come over. This year I thought I might put an ad in the paper. Just say if anybody wants to come over and see them they can. And then we have the outdoor ones. We’ve expanded to in the last couple of years. I don’t know if you saw the layout on the side of the house? And in the back there’s one that about ten by twenty foot on each one of them. And so they’re the bigger G-gauge trains, that’re outdoor trains that run on those in the summer. So if I know I’m going to run them, I put a sign out front, like, “Monday, four o’clock, trains.” And then sometimes neighborhood kids will come over and see them.
JB:
That’s really nice. So, are there a lot of children in the congregation then, over at the church?
DD:
Not a lot. Our attendance usually runs about fifty people. And mostly younger ones tend to live outside of Cooperstown because of the higher prices of houses and taxes in town. The hard part is that, that means that we’ve had- the kids- the few number of kids we’ve had are in four different school districts: [Owen B. Young], Cherry Valley, Cooperstown, and Milford. So they’re really split up and because they live out so far, it’s hard to have youth group things. So we tend to do it more like a special activity than regular youth group just because the distances. I mean, people live ten or fifteen miles out in four different directions. The good part is that, I mean, because people are coming a distance to church, they all want the church to be a good church. And occasionally in churches, unfortunately, there’s fighting, and people wanting power and positions and stuff, and you don’t get that here. People are all coming and wanting the church to work well together, so it’s a really nice atmosphere at church of people cooperating and trying to make things work the best they can.
JB:
You recently did a- Was it last week you had the big Thanksgiving dinner?
DD:
Two weeks ago. Usually we do it so it’s not as close to Thanksgiving so people aren’t- two big dinners on top of each other. And in the past we’ve had more people going to Florida for the winter. This year there’s only one lady that went. So we’ve tried to make it a little earlier to catch people before they went. So it works out usually best for us to have it ahead of time, so that worked out well.
JB:
Is that a common thing? That people from this area go to Florida for the winter?
DD:
Yeah.
JB:
I’ve been hearing that.
DD:
They call them snowbirds.
JB:
Snowbirds?
DD:
You know when people can’t stand the cold weather, they end up going down to Florida a lot.
JB:
Ok, well that’s interesting. I had never experience that before. You hear about, you know, people going south for the winter but- [Pause.]
DD:
Again, though, one of the hard parts about that, it sometimes takes out the people that are the younger retirement age. And when they start doing that, they could be active in things in the church during the whole year. And if they’re gone for half the year it tends to break things up more and they’re not as involved. So I think that’s one of the difficulties of people doing that. We don’t have a lot that are doing that now though.
JB:
[Pause.] Do you have any other hobbies, other than the trains? [Pause.] Reading?
DD:
Not too much. Just because I spend a lot of time working. Nice thing is I can just do that in between, like I was working on that this morning, when you came today. But I enjoy what I do, so I don’t mind spending a lot of time- I put a lot of time into working on the sermons, and children’s sermons, and getting the worship service together and visiting in people’s homes.
JB:
What kind of visits do you do?
DD:
Just stop by to see people. Anybody, like if they’re not there Sunday we make CD’s of the service, we used to make tapes, then we went digital, so now we make CD’s, so I take them to people if they’re not able to be there for Sunday morning.
JB:
How do the various churches in town work together? Do they work together?
DD:
There’s a council of churches and so they cooperate for a few things during the year. The Thanksgiving service we just had Sunday night, that rotates around which church it’s going to be at each year. And the baccalaureate service for the graduating high school seniors rotates around to the churches. Vacation bible school, it used to rotate around, there’ve been problems in terms of parking and facilities so it’s tended to be more often- it was at the Assembly of God for a couple of years and the Methodist church for a couple of years. But all the churches work together on that. And then the Good Friday service rotates around, and the Easter sunrise service. Not all the churches take part in that but that’s one of my favorite ones, I like the outdoor Easter sunrise which we have down at the Lake Front park, so I make sure that happens every year, so I’m more involved with that then some of the ministers.
JB:
Well, what happens with that? I’ve never heard of an outdoor service.
DD:
Well, I start timing a couple of months ahead of time what time the sun comes up because of course its different every year and the date is different. And from down at Lake Front park, if you look to the east, there’s a hill up there or a mountain, and so it’s got a curve to it, so you also have to figure where the sun is going to come because its moving north at that point of the year and so it comes up at a different place on the mountain, so I’m trying to figure out just what time the sun will come up. We time it and then set the time for the service so that the sun will be coming up right when the service starts.
JB:
That’s really nice, so that’s on Easter?
DD:
Yeah, on Easter sunrise- morning, and we have it right at the end of the road down at Lake Front Park and we’ll sing a couple of songs, the choir will sing a special number, and then somebody preaches, and so if other ministers want to, we rotate with that. It’s usually very cold, usually take the guitar down for music and sometimes your hands are frozen trying to play the guitar. It’s usually winter here, still, at Easter time.
JB:
So do you play the guitar then?
DD:
Yeah, I learned enough to play three or four chords for camp songs I started playing when I was working at camps and so I’m not very good at it but it works. I can do most hymns on it.
JB:
Do you play any other instruments?
DD:
The trombone. So I get that out twice a year, I play for Thanksgiving, I did a couple of weeks ago, and then Palm Sunday, I play the “Palms.” And so that’s about the only time I get it out any more.
JB:
And when did you start playing?
DD:
In elementary school and then up through high school. [Pause.] I was never great at it.
JB:
But did you enjoy it?
DD:
Yeah, pretty much.
JB:
Did you ever want to play another instrument, but never got a chance to?
DD:
Piano. I’d been taking piano lessons a little as a kid. And then when I was in South Dakota they had a little pump organ, and since I was there many, many hours with nobody else around, I would play the pump organ and memorize some hymns so I’d do them one note at a time and then play over that line until I got that and then add the other part in so I had three or four hymns that I had memorized. [Pause.] I wish I could just play piano. Our daughter plays piano and she started- Oh, about maybe fourth grade, accompanying her elementary school chorus and then pretty much all the way through high school was the school accompanist for all the music things. So she still plays sometimes with her church.
JB:
How old are your children?
DD:
David is thirty- let’s see he was born in seventy-six, so he’s thirty-two. And Katherine is thirty.
JB:
And what do they do for a living?
DD:
David works for SonoSight, which is- they make sonogram equipment for hospitals and things. And the things they work on are hand held ones so the doctor could just come up and look inside of you with that thing. They’ve lived in Seattle for I think about 3 yrs. He had worked for Canon near San Francisco for several years but then they downsized and got rid of their research and development that he was in, and so he stayed home and raised our granddaughter while our- his wife was teaching. And then when they had their second child she wanted to stay home and so he got a little more active in looking for a job again, and got a job up in Seattle. So they really like it there. We get out there usually two times a year to see them now. And occasionally they’ll get home maybe about once a year to come see us here. And Katherine went to Swarthmore College and then when she graduated she went to Cornell for the veterinary school and then, so now she’s a veterinarian and she spends [START OF TRACK FIVE, 40:00] a lot of time doing that.
JB:
Does she have a specialty?
DD:
Yeah, she does large animal. Which not to many of the vets go into anymore. You don’t make as much money actually as with small animals. And its much more dangerous, because she’s not a large person, and of course the horses- she doesn’t do as much with cows now. In school she did but she’s mostly with horses and alpacas. Actually a number of people have alpacas and she’s kind of become an alpaca specialist. In fact she has her own alpaca, because there was one that when it was born it couldn’t go to the bathroom basically, and it wasn’t going to live and there wasn’t anything they could do so the owner said she could have it. And so she tried this method on it, to see if she could reconstruct it, and it worked. She took it back to her office and it lived and she raised it in her house and so she has it now.
JB:
What’s life like with an alpaca?
DD:
Well the man she married has- raises alpacas. And he has two daughters. So there’s- they have maybe thirty alpacas, I don’t know, and so her alpaca is there with the other ones. They’re herd animals so it likes having friends around.
JB:
So do they sell the wool then? Is that how it works?
DD:
Yeah, the wool- they shear them and they can- let’s see, I don’t know. Susan has a hat that’s made out of Katherine’s alpaca’s wool. And the other thing I saw them for, they raise them and sell the babies. It’s kind of like a pyramid scheme. Right now alpacas are popular, so people raise them to sell them to other people who want alpacas to raise them and sell them to other people. So I’m not sure when- what the point is where it reaches where there’s all the alpacas that people want.
JB:
There’s a lot of alpaca farming out in South Dakota now, too. I went to high school with a kid whose family had alpacas.
DD:
But it’s nice because she knows a lot about alpacas, so in her work, she’s good at it.
JB:
That’s really cool. [Pause.] So do you see her often then?
DD:
Not very often. Several times a year but just between her schedule- like for Thanksgiving she’s on call, so she can’t go with us for Thanksgiving, but we’re going to try to stop there on Saturday on the way home and hopefully see her.
JB:
And she’s in Albany you said?
DD:
She’s in Cortland, over near Ithaca.
JB:
Oh, ok, ok. Sorry.
DD:
In Homer.
JB:
Homer, that’s right.
DD:
But it’s helpful, like I went to the doctor yesterday because my knee’s been bothering me for a couple of months. And so by the time I get an appointment and finally saw him, he said I’m getting old and I should take this supplement that’s- I forget what it’s called, but it was some kind of- it’s supposed to just help your cartilage, move more easily.
JB:
Glucosamine?
DD:
Yeah, that’s the one. [Laughter.] So I called her up last night and told her and she said well you need to get the one that has- because it’s the one for horses. It has glucosamine with something else and MGM in it. And so when I went to the drug store today and got that and I thought if they ask me I could just say, “This is what my vet recommended for me.” [Laughter.]
JB:
[Laughter.] So does she- did she grow up with a love of horses?
DD:
Yup, she always liked the animals, and liked horses. She took riding lessons when she was in high school. And she’d gone into- well let’s see, she had a history and medicine major in college, but she, at some point or another worked at a vet’s office in college, and decided she really wanted to go into veterinary medicine. You see you don’t make as much as a doctor, but you actually have to know more because each animal has its own system, so doctors only have to know people, where as vets have to know dogs, and horses, and alpacas, and cows and everything else.
JB:
And your patient can’t tell you what’s wrong with them. [Laughter.]
DD:
[Laughter.] Right.
JB:
I have nothing but admiration for vets. I bet you do too, Blackberry. [Pause.] Is there anything else you want to talk about?
DD:
[Pause.] I guess we’re enjoying life. We like to travel. Right now, we ended up going to Seattle as a form of our major travels. Susan works, as you know, at NYSHA as a librarian, so- fortunately, actually, going across the country is much cheaper than going part way across, which doesn’t make any sense. But flying from here to Seattle is relatively cheap, it’s- last time I went it was about $250 round trip, for flights. And you can’t drive any place for that any more. So, it’s nice actually that they live all the way across, because if you went to South Dakota or something it’d cost you two or three time that for a plane ticket. It’s a strange thing.
JB:
It’s the regional airports and all that. [Pause.] Well I guess you said that you studied in France. Where in France were you?
DD:
We started off in Vichy. There were, I’m not sure how many, maybe five or ten kids from Kalamazoo. They had four different study centers in France, so it depended on the level of French- I had taken French since second grade, but every time we moved, I’d start back over at the beginning again so I was never that good at it, it was just that I took it for a lot of years. So I wasn’t a French major, but at Kalamazoo everybody could go. They had a subsidy, so you would just pay the same as if you were at college. And then with their grant that covered your transportation over, and your housing, and food and stuff, so you paid the school the same as if you were at Kalamazoo and they covered your costs if you were on foreign study. So unless you were crazy, everybody would go. So I went to the center where it wasn’t for French majors, but you took intensive French in Vichy for five weeks and then went to Clairmont-Ferrand and took classes with the regular French students in French, so they were taught in French. But you just kind of audited them, and you had to take a test, and as far as Kalamazoo was concerned you just had to pass two or three tests, whatever it was, to keep up the number of credits for school. And it was pass/fail so it didn’t matter what you got so long as you passed. But they considered, and I think they’re right, that the experience of foreign study was so much more valuable then what you might learn sitting back here and taking something. That as long as you were, you know, taking something in school, like I took geography and some kind of history class, or something. I don’t even remember what I took. But you would be going to class and learning something, but just the experience of traveling and visiting with people and so forth, you’d learn a lot. And I think, in general the people that all went had that same experience that it really was enriching, and a good experience.
JB:
So did you get to travel much while you were there?
DD:
Yeah, I had a month at Christmas and I had the Eurail Pass so you could travel as much as you wanted. So I would basically walk around a city all day and then ride the train at night so I never paid for a hotel, I would just get on the train every night and go someplace. So I went to Spain and Portugal, and this was during Christmastime: Italy, Austria, Germany, all in that month. And then in the spring we had another couple of weeks and I went up to Norway, Denmark, and Sweden. On a couple of weekends, I went up to Paris. So I got to travel around a lot.
JB:
Have you had a chance to go back?
DD:
No, I haven’t been back to Europe I think in- Well, we did go back to- it wasn’t back there, but there was a conference at the International Baptist Theological Seminary in Prague a few years ago and Susan and I got to go on that. There was a special deal, and there was a session on the Anabaptists, which were the theological forerunners of Baptists. It’d be similar in some ways to the Amish today. And a big center of that was the area in central Europe. And so they had a conference about the relationships of Anabaptists and Baptists in Prague, so we went there for the conference and stayed there in Prague and got to travel around a little bit in that area.
JB:
You had mentioned previously that you found your time in France to be somewhat similar to your time in South Dakota?
DD:
No, I was just saying that South Dakota was even more of a cultural difference than France. I mean France was a different language, but you still have your Western civilization type things. Whereas with the Indian people, a lot of them speak English now, in fact the kids have gotten to where, because now with television and things, you know they speak a lot of English. But the adults when they were just together would usually just speak in Lakota. So there was still a lot of those cultural things. And just the poorness of that area in South Dakota was much- economically poorer than in Europe. So as I said, we didn’t have running water, and when I was out there at Christmastime and the other people then didn’t have- they’ve gotten it since then for most of the houses, but they didn’t have running water so they’d have to go out to a pond and chop through the ice, and you know it might be several feet thick, and you’d have to chop though with an axe to get down and get water. So that’s how they would get their drinking water. But they had said because they were alive that meant they had lived through any childhood diseases that you’d get from the pond, but they warned me it wasn’t safe for me to drink it. So I just had to wait until I got more water from town, which just came occasionally. [Laughter.]
JB:
You were on the Cheyenne River?
DD:
Cheyenne River Reservation. It’s the Cheyenne River, but it’s the Sioux Indians.
JB:
That’s up in the northwest part, kind of…
DD:
You know where Dupree is? It’s northwest of Dupree or Eagle Butte.
JB:
Yeah, ok, ok. [START OF TRACK SIX, 50:00] I drive up that way when I go to North Dakota to visit my grandmother, from South Dakota.
DD:
Well there’s- on the reservation, there were I’m not sure how many, maybe a dozen YMCAs in different communities. And the YMCA director who lived in Dupree would take movies around each month and show them at the Ys, for example. And then they would have the summer camp and so on. So there would be several volunteers that might come from different colleges and they would have the program set up with Kalamazoo and so he would place a volunteer in each of the different communities. And sometimes we would get to visit the other communities. Like when I was there at Christmas I went as Santa Clause with him. So that at different places I got to play Santa Clause when they handed out presents to the kids.
JB:
Did you get a chance to see those other volunteers, ever?
DD:
We got together once at the beginning or end of the session, so not too much. Mostly you just stayed in your community.
JB:
Did you find that it was- Well first off I guess I should ask, were there people your age? Were you able to find a peer group?
DD:
No, there weren’t too many people my age there. It was more younger kids and older people there, I’d say.
JB:
So was that difficult?
DD:
No. It was fun doing things with the kids, and the older people, like in Frazier, the community I was in, I mean you wouldn’t even know Frazier was there if you drove through because there was the church building and the next closest house was over a mile away and then over seven miles there were about seven more houses. So there were no stores there or anything, just a lot of- they do cattle ranching. They would still ride their horses. Most families each had a pickup truck, too, but when they were actually working they would use horses. Each night though the guy that lived farthest away would come on with his truck or a couple of them would, and they’d pick up other people and come to the church and play cards. So a lot of nights they’d come over and have a card game at church or they had prayer meetings or things. So I’d see people regularly that way. And I didn’t have a car either so I would walk, but I would walk around just to the different houses there. And then the next closest community. was Red Scaffold and that was about, I think, seven miles away, so I didn’t walk there as often. [Laughter.] I mean it was a seven-mile walk. And they had given me- the kids had found a puppy out on the plains, so they brought him and gave him to me. So I had a dog out there, and his name was U, which in Sioux means come, so if I wanted him to come I’d say, “U u.” And they don’t usually train their dogs, I mean traditionally they would eat dogs, a long time ago, they don’t eat them any more, but they always threatened to eat my puppy. But I trained him in Sioux so if I wanted him to sit I’d say, “Yo tanka.” And shake hands was “Nampe usa.” So I taught him a few things in Sioux, which they thought was kind of cute because they didn’t do that for their dogs, they were more just watchdogs. They’d live outside, but U was different. But when I was going to go back to college, because that was during college, I couldn’t take him back with me, so I gave him to one of the families. And then when I went out a couple of years later at Christmas time, U had had a puppy, so at Christmas they gave me his puppy, who was Ishma. I named him. So I had him for the month I was out there, then I had to leave him out there too. But I got along real well with the people. There’s still a couple of families I send Christmas cards to.
JB:
But you haven’t been back in quite a while.
DD:
No. [Pause.] The last time I went back was at a Thanksgiving, actually, about maybe seventeen years ago, before we moved here. But the YMCA director was leaving from there. He’s been there for seventeen years or something, and it was going to be his- that next year he was leaving for another job, so I figured that would be the last convenient time to visit, because you could fly into- Pierre was the closest place, and then he could pick me up there, and then get me out to the reservation. Well actually that time I went with the kids, Susan was in school, working on her master’s degree so she couldn’t go, but David and Katherine were about junior high age. Well, older elementary, junior high age. And so I thought it would be neat to go out for Thanksgiving with them so they could see what it was like. So we flew into Rapid City and rented a car and drove up to his place and got sleeping bags and supplies, and the went out to the reservation. And it was still pretty much the same type of experience. The people came over- we’d actually missed t dinner because the YMCA director had thought it was going to be at night and when we got there, they’d already had it. So they got the food together again and all came over to the church building and had another dinner. And then, we stayed in the building there, but again there wasn’t any- we had just enough firewood for the evening. And after everybody left, we went outside and looked around the driveway trying to find any scraps of bark or anything that had fallen off the wood coming in, built up the fire, and huddled up close to it. And then about midnight, all of a sudden there was a knock on the door, and these guys had gone out to the river and chopped down wood for us. So it was really moving. So they got to experience, you know, just what it was like.
JB:
And what did they think of that?
DD:
Oh, they were really impressed. In fact, while we went around to some of the different houses, there was one of the older ladies that lived in a little house, about the size of just these two rooms, and they still have a pole across the living room with deer meat hanging to dry there. You know almost nothing in the house, but she said, “Oh.” And she went into the other room and got out a letter I had sent- the Christmas letter of David when he was little. And- [Pause.] He was really impressed that here in this little shack that somebody had a picture of him from the Christmas letter. So it was a really neat experience.
JB:
It’s a really neat place. I like it up there on that prairie.
DD:
Yup. We’ve been fortunate to have had a lot of neat experiences, because every time we’ve moved it’s been like a whole new lifetime. And one of the advantages, you could say, of being a minister is you’re asked by people to come someplace, and you’re accepted right away into their lives. So normally when somebody moves into a community you have to, you know, try to make friends or get to know people, and the minister kind of has an instant in. And you can go into people’s houses, you know I can just visit people’s homes and be part of things. So you know, you move in and you’re a part of people’s lives. And every time you move you’re in a whole new lifetime of all these new people. So we’ve had lifetimes of experiences with people.
JB:
So what’s your favorite thing about being a minister?
DD:
[Pause.] I guess, just, trying- especially through sermons, because that’s what I spend a lot of my time on the sermons and the worship services and things. Just finding ways of sharing my love of God and God’s love of us, with people. And just trying to find ways of saying that, because every week, basically, as I’ve told them here, you know, my theme is “God is Love.” And you know trying to say that fifty times a year. [Laughter.] In some different way, you’re still saying that, but you know trying to communicate that in different ways that make it alive for people.
JB:
And what would you say the most difficult part of being a minister is?
DD:
[Pause.] Maybe when you’ve put that much of yourself into it and when people don’t respond, or it just doesn’t seem to matter to some people. I mean here’s something that’s so important to you and for other people it doesn’t mean anything, or for some people it’s just a formality, or a tradition, it’s not something that’s really a part of who they are. I think we’re fortunate here that for a lot of the people, it really is an important part of who they are. But when it’s not, it’s discouraging. [Pause.] And there’s a lot of good things about it. And I’ve always enjoyed, as I’ve said, the camping things, working with young people. And one of the things that we do, the different ministers take part in, is services at the jail. So usually I’ve gone over during the month of September and do the services at the county jail. So that’s always hard at first, because like for anybody going into an unknown situation, you don’t know the people, what are you going to say, or how are you going to be accepted and things, but every time I go it’s always a blessing, because you get so much out of it. The people there, a lot of the times they’re finally out of a bad situation, whether it’s drugs or alcohol or family problems or whatever. And they’re kind of forced to be out of that. For which, amazingly, a lot of them are thankful, they really are glad that they’re getting their lives straightened out. Unfortunately, a lot of times when they get out they have nothing to go to but that same situation, so that’s hard. But while they’re there, a lot of them get involved in Bible studies and really get thinking about what they want. So that they’re very receptive when you have the services, it’s always turned out to be a good thing. And they listen to what you’re saying, and respond to it. Just this week, when I was over at the hospital in the elevator, somebody recognized me. Well it was somebody that had been from the jail. Another time down at the mall in Oneonta, there was a young guy with a group of other young guys, and he said, “Oh, this is the minister that saw me up in the jail!” So you know you’re at least touching people’s lives. So that’s always a neat thing.
JB:
Well, I think we’re just about at an hour or so, so if you have any last things you want to say, bring up… [Pause.] No?
DD:
Not that I can think of. There’s probably lots more, but that’s-
JB:
If- depending on schedules [START OF TRACK SEVEN, 60:00] and what not. We might schedule a follow-up interview, if that’s ok with you?
DD:
Yup, or if you have any other questions.
JB:
Ok, yeah, if something comes up.
DD:
Call me up or whatever.
JB:
I’ll make sure and get in touch with you. Well, thank you so much, this has been really lovely, and- That food smells amazing. [Laughter.]

Files

Citation

Johanna Blume, “Douglas Deer, November 26, 2008,” CGP Community Stories, accessed October 17, 2019, http://cgpcommunitystories.org/items/show/11.