CGP Community Stories

Dorothy Hudson, November 16, 2012

Title

Dorothy Hudson, November 16, 2012

Subject

Cooperstown (N.Y.)
East Brunswick (N.J.)
Dillingham (Alaska)
World War II
Environmentalism and politics
League of Women Voters

Description

Dorothy Hudson, known to friends and family as Dotty, was born on January 16, 1937 and spent her childhood in East Brunswick, New Jersey. After graduating from Syracuse University with a degree in microbiology, Dotty married her husband, Charles Hudson. She followed Charles, or Chuck, to medical school in Montreal, and on to many adventures, including a stay in Dillingham, Alaska. During this time she took care of their three children.

In 1974, the family relocated to Cooperstown after Chuck accepted a job at Bassett Hospital. Since coming to Cooperstown, Dotty has been involved in various organizations, including volunteering at the hospital, Friends of the Library, and the League of Women Voters. She is also an environmental activist, speaking out most recently for the anti-fracking movement in Upstate New York.

During the interview Mrs. Hudson discusses growing up in New Jersey during and after World War II. She also speaks about her time in Alaska and adjusting to life there in the 1960s. Some of the most interesting material in the interview concerns her involvement with the League of Women Voters in Cooperstown and the work they have done on behalf of environmental causes and voters’ rights. Throughout the interview she discusses her views on climate change and the wars in the Middle East. It is clear Mrs. Hudson finds a civic outlet through activism, voicing her opinions on local and international issues.

Mrs. Hudson speaks clearly and with great detail, but she does admit to having some issues with memory. Any false starts have been edited out of the transcript to maintain clarity.

Creator

Britney Schline

Publisher

Cooperstown Graduate Program, State University of New York-College at Oneonta

Date

2012-11-16

Rights

New York State Historical Association Library, Cooperstown, NY

Format

audio/mpg
27.5mB
audio/mpg
27.5mB
audio/mpg
27.5mB
audio/mpg
11.1mB
image/jpeg
881kB

Language

en-US

Type

Sound
Image

Identifier

12-002

Coverage

Upstate New York
1937-2012
Cooperstown, NY

Online Submission

No

Interviewer

Britney Schline

Interviewee

Dorothy Hudson

Location

44 Nelson Ave.
Cooperstown, NY

Transcription

DH = Dorothy Hudson
BS = Britney Schline

[START OF TRACK 1, 0:00]

BS:
It is November 16, 2012 and this is Britney Schline interviewing Mrs. Dorothy, also known as Dottie, Hudson at her home on Nelson Ave. in Cooperstown, New York for the Cooperstown Graduate Program’s Research and Fieldwork Course. Dorothy, do you mind just starting by telling us where and when you were born?

DH:
I was born January 16, 1937 in Hackensack, New Jersey. And since I’m in
Cooperstown I have to say I used to keep New Jersey quiet. It’s not something you want to advertise in Cooperstown. [Laughs] But William Cooper came from New Jersey.

BS:
That’s true. And can you tell me a bit about growing up in Hackensack?

DH:
I didn’t really grow up in Hackensack. We were living at my Grandmother’s house, which is on Clinton Place actually. My mother’s twin sister, Anna, was the nurse that delivered me. I have an older sister and we lived there four years. This was towards the end of the Depression, and then when my grandmother died there was some money. And my parents got money enough to buy a house, which I lived in the rest of my childhood in New Brunswick.

BS:
Oh, okay.

DH:
Hackensack is just the beginning.

BS:
Well then, would you like to tell me about growing up in New Brunswick a little?

DH:
We got a house in a little housing development that was going to be much bigger, but it stopped at the war just in the 1940s. That was the end of the development. It stayed sort of in mid-air until after the war, and so there were nice little houses out in this former farming area. Typical. We used to play in the foundations of the houses that were going to be built after the war. We used to play racing games around the foundations. There used to be frogs in one of them. We used to play with them. It was nice to have a lot of open fields. So, this is East Brunswick, not New Brunswick.

BS:
Okay.

DH:
And it was a non-place at the time. Now it’s got a real identity, people come from East Brunswick, which is strange to me. It’s a real place and it’s very built up now. But at the time it was sort of a peripheral place. A lot of people who’d immigrated there, a lot of people from Eastern Europe. A lot of variety. The original people were old Dutch and old English. Down the road about a mile, easy to get to, was the old mill and the original family, who were Dutch, a few interesting Dutch people around. I started school in a two-room schoolhouse, but it wasn’t really old. It was only turn of the century old. But there were three grades in one room and two in the other, and two teachers. That was part of the East Brunswick School System. And then after fourth grade [I] went to another school, and another school. We didn’t have a high school there, so I was with the same group of elementary school children for the whole eight grades. There wasn’t much changeover in contrast to about the end of my high school years— that’s when East Brunswick started growing dramatically. My sister who was four years older grew up with me. We lived in this little circle of houses. It was sort of, a little isolated from anywhere else, unless you got in a car or bus or a bike.

BS:
And can you tell me a little bit about your sister?

DH:
My sister was four years older. I was going to bring some pictures in. I will. Oh no, here they are. I saw her picture in here. Makes for really interesting time to have nothing going on.

BS:
Oh, that’s okay.

DH:
Oh, there’s my mother. One of my pastimes is I really like to take pictures of everything and everybody. There are a lot, tons, of pictures in my background. My sister was very outgoing. She died four years ago. I only had one sister. My mother came from a family of five and my father of nine. So I had lots of cousins, but our family was small. I guess all the rest of the cousins all spread out across the country. They were small families compared to my parents. My sister was a very significant part in our family and neighborhood. She was very outgoing. I think she had a lot of energy. It was not easy for my parents to keep up with her. I on the other hand was a good, quiet child. And that was my role, which I still have, the person to mend things up and not cause a stir. But that’s not true. It’s just that I sound quiet.

BS:
So how was your relationship with her?

DH:
Very good. We always had the same room. And she was just a whole generation different. So there wasn’t any rivalry, because she was in charge. [Laughs] I was always the little sister, which was comfortable. Yeah, it’s too bad. We all miss her a lot. I think she took after my father’s side of the family. My father and my husband’s father, and my two son-in-laws’ families, all the fathers came from the South. Isn’t that curious? Just, you know, just the husbands’ dads, they all came up during the Depression. Actually, Mitch’s family came up more recently when he was born. But my father and Chuck’s father came up in the thirties or the twenties. And my father grew up on a farm, a tobacco farm, tobacco and cotton in North Carolina. And he always had a wonderful accent. Unfortunately, most of his relatives were still down there, except for one brother who lived in New Jersey also. My mother’s family came over before the Civil War. When I was in high school my great-great aunt came to live with us when she was ninety-six. So I never knew my grandmother much, but I knew my great-grandmother’s sister. Jumped a generation there. So, I get this combination of New York, New Jersey, and North Carolina.

BS:
And when you said your mother’s family came over, where did they come over from?

DH:
They came over from England. The only record I have is Southampton. That’s where everybody left from. Whether they actually lived there long, I’m not sure. Let’s see, my great-grandmother’s daughter married someone from Scotland, so I’m Scotch and English. I guess they probably came in through Ellis Island, if Ellis Island was operating then. I guess a large percentage of Americans’ families came through New York. Now that I’m a New Yorker I can be proud of that. Nobody comes through New Jersey, do they? In actual fact, Ellis Island is kind of almost into New Jersey. They’re close.

BS:
Yeah, that’s true. And what was your mother’s maiden name?

DH:
Landis. Her father died when she was very young. So we didn’t stay too close to her side of the family, but if you go to Pennsylvania where the Pennsylvania Dutch are and open the phonebook you’ll find pages and pages of people named Landis. My daughter, that’s her middle name, and she decided to drop her first name, which was Amy. So she’s known as Landis, which suits her now, because she’s very grown up. Amy is a little girl. So one-eighth is Pennsylvania Dutch. I like to think I got something from them.

BS:
And can you describe your father for me? What was his last name?

DH:
Underwood. I think there are Underwoods all over the place. But there aren’t a lot of them that we’re related to. My only claim to celebrity-ship is his mother was a Johnson, and her brother was Mac Johnson, who was in the State Senate. And their family was related to Andrew Johnson, the only president who was impeached. Not anybody you’d want to brag about.

BS:
It’s still neat.

DH:
But as far as I know, my grandmother’s family was well thought of, and a little more educated than my grandfather’s family. He was a farmer of cotton, but he was good looking so he made up for it. So my father always wanted to be a watchmaker, and he decided that he was getting away from that farm. He wanted to have nothing to do with living off the land, although he always farmed. He always had a garden, as do I. And he knew a lot about it. His plan was to become a watchmaker. And so he came up North, lived with his brother, who was up here already. And he worked as a watchmaker, ran a little store. And then during the war he worked for the government, fixing watches and teaching people to fix watches for the Army, for the Raritan Arsenal. Then after the war he kept his own business. But, of course, then when watches became insignificant; they became manufactured and you didn’t need to get them fixed he went and concentrated on clock repairs, which was a good thing to do. All of these people who had nice old clocks kept him in business. You think of somebody not being able to do something like that nowadays, come out of a farming community and learn a small trade. I keep thinking we need ways for people to move ahead themselves in this day and age. When so many people are out of work.

BS:
Sure. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

DH:
Well, he came up and met my mother, who was a schoolteacher. Her mother had been a teacher, one of her sisters was a teacher, and as I said her twin sister was a nurse. So they were a more educated family, but since her father had died when she was young…. that’s an interesting story. He was bitten by a mad dog and got treatment for rabies, and died of the treatment. Something affected his digestive system. He would have been better off getting rabies? No, I don’t think so. I guess rabies treatment still is a very difficult thing to go through. I know a friend who had. But it isn’t life threatening anymore. Anyway, my grandmother raised five children. And that’s a mystery how she did it. Carefully. Frugally. Which is something I come by, being frugal. My children would say, I save too much. I save everything. I got that from my parents. So my mother taught after she got married, but then when she got pregnant you couldn’t teach if you had children in those days. I don’t know when that law or that custom stopped. I need to research that. I’ve heard of that even after the war, that married teachers didn’t have a preference. You had to be unmarried supporting a family, or a man supporting a family. So then they were left on my father’s job. My sister was born. And the Depression came; and I have no knowledge of that at all. I was far too young, thank goodness. My sister could remember my parents being worried about the Depression. Jobs. Then my father got a job in New Brunswick after the war. And there’s a connection between New York, Philadelphia, and Washington. It’s the railroad. And New Brunswick is on the railroad. That’s how he got his job for a jeweler. He worked as a watch repairman for a jeweler there. This is where Rutgers is, New Brunswick, and Johnson & Johnson. Johnson & Johnson was the equivalent of the Clarks in New Brunswick. They were the big industry in town. On the other side of town, the other side of the river, this is the Raritan River, was Highland Park, where my mother eventually went back to teaching, and where we went to church, and where my husband went to school. So, a little geography there between the Raritan River, which is significant. His father commuted to New York on that railroad, and my father got watch supplies on the railroad. Thank goodness for the Pennsylvania Railroad.

BS:
And when did your mother go back to teaching?


DH:
I was in eighth grade. She was very reluctant to go back to teaching, because it didn’t look good for a woman to be working in those days. Isn’t that crazy? But she was such a natural, and it was such a good thing for her. She was an elegant teacher, really good, a good teacher. She always taught elementary school, and I was heading towards junior high about then.

BS:
And can you tell me a little bit about your relationship with your parents?

DH:
Well, as I said, I was the good girl. [Laughs] I had a very secure, comfortable childhood. And, strangely enough that’s the kind of life that I’ve had. I’ve been very blessed that things have fallen into place for me. There’s no reason why they should. And if I hadn’t fallen into a comfortable situation I could never have survived on my own. In contrast to my sister, who was very capable of finding her own way in the world. My mother, she was a very strong person in a very quiet way, very inquisitive. She liked learning things. Books. And they were pretty social in the community, in a small community, in her church. My mother painting this. That was one of her pastimes. She sewed before she went back to work, and canned, which I don’t do. I can’t bring myself to fuss around with canning. It’s probably a good thing, because if the power goes out I’ve got an awful lot of frozen vegetables from my garden that would be lost. She wouldn’t need the power on. So my parents, they kept a lid on things. Things were not a crisis. They always voted for whoever was going to be President. They accepted things the way they were, in contrast to me, or my sister. We were very radical in the sense that we always expected things should be right and proper in the government. Marrying into Chuck’s family helps too, because they were more politically oriented. My mother played the piano, and we always had pets at home. But we were not in the city. We were out in the suburbs, had to take the bus into town. Life was very peaceful and quiet out there. Boring, when you think of it. The elementary school I went to, East Brunswick, was just barely minimum. When I think of kids nowadays who’ve got art, and music, and physical education in school, I think, what would I have been like? I had to teach myself an awful lot of things that children get taught in school now. Every year in school was an improvement; it was always more interesting to go to high school and junior high, and better in college. And I loved working. We were economically a little better off than our neighbors, the kids we went to school with, not our actual neighbors. They were more new immigrants. And since my mother’s family had been here for a couple of generations I was more acclimated. I always felt a little like I had an advantage. Which was not so much true in New Brunswick. But New Brunswick’s a working class town. I had no idea that I had a real problem until I was quite grown up and had children already. And my problem is that I’ve got a terrible memory. Now, all my peer group is losing their memory so it’s no big deal. I had no idea that I had this problem. It’s like you’re so aware of children with handicaps nowadays, with Autism and Asperger’s, and learning and hearing. Those kinds of children were never talked about, they were all in separate schools, and nobody ever questioned the fact. I didn’t have a reading disability. I was awfully interested in reading, but as it turned out I had no capacity to remember what I’d learned. And it’s made a lot of difference. And it keeps me from talking quickly in a social situation, because I have to think about it. [Ping from heater] That’s going to be on the recording. That’s our good old steam heater. That’s another story. I was always looking and thinking, trying to figure out the world as I was growing up. And my mother had it, and my father too. They were very interested in biological things, science, and natural history. They were both very good at that. When they’d come to visit they would say, “Oh look at that tree, and that bird…” and whatever, and since my father was a gardener. So I always thought I wanted to be interested in the sciences. Until I gave up the idea of being an airline hostess [laughs], despite the fact I had no idea. I’d never been on a plane. But I thought that would be a nice job. I also thought that since I wasn’t very good musically I could be a conductor [laughs]. So I went through school with a great deal of interest and curiosity and concentration, and loving it, assuming that I would get some benefits from my education. And I did, but not what I expected. All the benefits are my own private thing, but not academic, not as far as jobs go, because as it turns out I couldn’t remember what I had just done in the laboratory. I had decided that I wanted to study biology, and when I went to college I got into microbiology.

BS:
Sorry. I’m just turning it up a little. Let’s see if that’s better. Okay, sorry, continue.

DH:
And my sister wanted to be an elementary school teacher. And I thought, well, that’s really not very forward looking. She’s really not extending herself as far as possible. But she was. She was a good teacher. And I was interested in esoteric academic things. Part of the other thing was one of our neighbors growing up that I was close to in school had gotten out of Austria before the Nazis took over, just barely. And he was a professor at the college at Rutgers. So I was very close to them, and had this world view of what was going on, a broader view maybe than some kids who weren’t exposed to international situations. Of course everybody growing up had relatives in World War II, but my friend’s family were all cut off. They were all in Austria and they couldn’t contact them during the war, over those four years. They lived down the street and had a very comfortable life, a job. But all those years they had no idea what had become of their mothers, fathers, sisters, [and] brothers. And I happened to be in their living room when my friend’s mother got a letter saying that her family was alive. I can remember the tears coming down her face, which surprised me at the time, tears of joy. Growing up at that time, I think we thought that we had solved the world’s problems by winning the war. The economy was working well, and people got their houses rebuilt that had lain empty and unfinished all of those years. I think it was one of the more peaceful times in our American history, except unless you were a black person, or even an Asian, because they were stigmatized too. But for the rest of us it was a very peaceful time in the country. And it wasn’t until the sixties when we realized that things were not as settled. And by then I had been married and slowly began to think, well things should be right, because we had gone through the war. Things had been put into place, they were all back together. Things were where they should be. That’s always been my point of view. That there should be a best way, we should know it, and we’re responsible for doing it. So I’m jumping ahead. I studied microbiology at Syracuse University. I could have gone to New Brunswick, which was within walking distance, almost, to Rutgers. And the girl’s college was separate then, it was NJC.

[START OF TRACK 2, 0:00]

My sister-in-law went to NJC, New Jersey College for Women. And now it’s all Rutgers. My sister went to school in Newark, New Jersey, which was a nice place back then. Now Newark, New Jersey is a sociology lesson. [They have] a wonderful mayor, but [it’s] a pretty unsettled place to be. So my parents very kindly let me go away to college. All those years of being very frugal, I guess because I was the youngest, they could afford to put me in college and pay the tuition. Which, as I think back on it, must have been an awful lot for them. I think of parents nowadays having to pay for college for students; it’s a phenomenon. So there were several of us from the area going up to school in Syracuse. It was a great experience. Good school. Nice people. And I got into microbiology, rather than plain biology. One of my classmates from high school and I switched living accommodations. She went into a bigger apartment, and I went into a smaller house. It was cottage living, which was a nice arrangement. And then my parents would never have been happy with me going to a sorority. So I luckily found a cottage arrangement where it was kind of friends living together and it was across from the biology building, actually. So that’s where I lived for four years, well three of the four years. And in the summer, my junior year, I met Chuck. As I said he came from the other side of the river. And we were working at a restaurant in a Howard Johnson’s on my side of the river, and that’s how we got to know each other. He was at Princeton, and that was an all boys’ school, so I had very little competition. So he came up to visit me at school, and I came down to visit him. And after I graduated we got married. And then he went off to medical school in Montreal. So, that began a long odyssey of my peaceful life traveling around with Chuck, who’s a very settled, simple, uncomplicated person. He’s not rash, he’s very careful in what he does, but when I look back on it he’s done an awful lot of wild, crazy things when you add it up. Going to Montreal, and McGill is an English-speaking school, but we were living at the edge of the university on the French-speaking side. The English side of Montreal was more to the west. And we were in the area where there were a lot of Greek people, and French people, and the college students. So there were a number of other wives of college students who were there, and families. So we had a little community. We used to go to the farmer’s market to go shopping in Montreal. And I would listen to the radio station, the CBC, and the BBC, and here are all the names of these wonderful sounding places that I had never heard of before. Manitoba, Chicoutimi, and Saint-Hubert. So we were not actually immersed in the French. And that was before Quebec Libre, and the desire, just before, to speak French. I think they’ve mellowed out. But at the time English was predominantly the language of commerce. I did take some French lessons for immigrants. I didn’t work in any real job. I had one child, Beth, and then I had a second child, Andrew. And I did childcare, which was the natural thing. In the summertime my very reasonable, settled husband got jobs with the government. Well, to begin with, we were working in Vermont, where his brother lived. And then eventually his parents moved up there. We worked at children’s camps there in Vermont [for] two summers. He wasn’t a doctor yet, but he was working in medicine. He worked in Salisbury, Maryland, on the peninsula. And the next summer we went to Arizona, to Tuba City, which is in between the Navajo and the Hopi settlement. There’s a hospital there. That was a wonderful experience. His sister moved up to Alaska and he always had it in mind that he wanted to go up to Alaska. So he joined the Public Health Service. So after he graduated, let’s see, he had to do an internship. That was at Salt Lake City, which was another weird move. [Laughs] That was an interesting place to be, nice for children. It’s strange to be an alien, being a non-Mormon. Everybody who wasn’t a Mormon felt like you were all classified as gentiles; we were all in the same boat. But I’ve heard that there’s a very liberal mayor of Salt Lake City, who’s not Mormon. I don’t know how that happened. So he got the job in public health in Alaska after his internship, and we bought a little Volkswagen bus and drove up to Alaska with two children. This was in the early sixties. Chuck graduated in ’63. Andrew was born that year, so this was the early sixties. And during his internship was the year that President Kennedy was assassinated, which was a turning point for the whole country. Wasn’t it? And, as we were driving up to Alaska, I just kept thinking, you know, what’s going to happen to the country? It was so unsettled from the way it had been all those years we were growing up. [In] ’64 there was an earthquake in Anchorage. And they said, “well we want you to come up to the hospital, but leave your wife and children.” But we didn’t pay attention to them. We came up anyway. And we did find a place to rent. We got there, the roads were a little broken here and there, especially outside of town. And right by the water, too. Isn’t that interesting? Just like Staten Island and New Jersey being under water. That’s what happened, right? And in this one particular area the earthquake dissolved the ground, it subsided, it was built on clay. Those houses were destroyed. And I bet they built them up again. So we have had the experience of going through a physical dislocation. And thinking, you know, if there was another earthquake, we wouldn’t have food or power. But there we were, feeling a little brave. His sister was up in Fairbanks, Alaska, which is in the interior. And we were in Anchorage, where the Public Health Service was. It was one central place there. During the first year he got volunteered to do a job to fly out to one of the hospitals, and this is what happened to his airplane on the way out. [Shows photograph of crashed plane] It didn’t land very well, crashed on landing. So, he came close to being permanently injured, crushed his spine, but he recovered enough to go back to work. And they said on light duty, and he was assigned to go out in the bush. In this particular picture that shows him playing the recorder, his jaw was broken so he couldn’t talk very well. But he could play the recorder. He had a couple of weeks’ vacation, and an opportunity to think about life and death. Then we all went out to Dillingham. I think that’s why he wanted me to…[brings out globe]

BS:
Oh, the globe.

DH:
Yeah, I brought that out so I can show you. That there is Anchorage, that’s Fairbanks. You can take a boat around here. But this is where we were stationed, on the other side of Bristol Bay, which Sarah Palin’s husband is from. One of her children is named Bristol.

BS:
So how did you get there?

DH:
Oh, we flew.

BS:
He wanted to fly again after…

DH:
No, he did not. I’ve never been bothered by flying. He’s gotten his mobility back, but never has enjoyed flying.

BS:
I can imagine.

DH:
Yeah. But since we were stationed out there, we had to fly out there. And his job was to take care of a lot of different little villages up and down the mainland and halfway down the peninsula, and he had to fly there in a small plane. He’d contact them by radio. We went back two years ago to see his sister and we stopped, and flew over to Dillingham again. It was wonderful to see it again. It’s grand. Very un-fancy, it’s still a very basic place. Where as Anchorage itself has gotten a lot of money, the airport, federal money. It’s gotten glamorous in places, but Dillingham is not glamorous. One thing I’ve been interested in is the Bristol Bay fishing, because that was basically a fishing port, salmon. And they want to, they being a company, wants to start a copper and gold mine way up there. Which is a typical Alaskan thing. But the biology people are very anxious to not do that because it will affect one of the last great salmon industries. So that gets me into what I’ve been thinking of, having been trained as a biologist, but not working in it, I’ve always been thinking biology and the environment. We came back here during the time when the EPA was formed by Nixon, and people began cleaning up things. Cleaning up the Hudson. And cleaning up the Raritan River near where I lived, and you could actually walk down by the river and take a deep breath, which you couldn’t when I was growing up. And I got used to that. My parents belonged to a boat club that nobody went out on a boat in the river, but you could again. That’s been a strong interest of mine. Keeping the balance of nature and not doing unsustainable things. And it’s become terribly important.
So, I have three children. Andrew was born in Montreal, during medical school. And Beth was born in Vermont where Chuck’s family is, and was, his brother. And then Amy was born in Dillingham; the year that Chuck crashed in his airplane, she was conceived. And she was born out there. She was born where the hospital is. It’s called Kanakanak, which I think is nice, because I started out in Hackensack, and she started in Kanakanak, [Laughs] Our Indian heritage. The Alaskan Natives are such wonderful people to know. They haven’t been brutalized the way we finished off so many of the tribes around here, where they have to survive on gambling and selling cheap cigarettes. I was very happy to know that Native peoples’ cultures [were] being supported. And that’s a good thing that NYSHA [New York State Historical Association] does, having the beautiful Thaw Collection and periodic lectures. There’s a lot more to learn.

BS:
Do you want to speak a little bit more about your time in Dillingham?

DH:
Oh, you said, “how did we get there?” The food came by boat. Down around the peninsula. And once a year a boat would come up with all your supplies. Last year I heard the boat going to Nome couldn’t get in there because of the ice, and because of climate change. So we were in this little community of hospital people. It’s gotten bigger. It’s a nicer sized hospital. The Native Corporations have divided up parts of Alaska and they’re running their own business. They got money from the settlement from building the Alaska Pipeline. While we were there the federal government was paying for it, and it was a small group of people. There were two doctors and half a dozen nurses and cooks and mechanics, and we all lived in this little area. And Dillingham itself, where the people lived, was down the road, seven miles, I think. And when our first daughter, Beth, started school she had to go by school bus all the way down to Dillingham. Somebody decided they wanted the town to be not where the hospital was. There was a disagreement there. The hospital and the town were two different places. Right on the cliff overlooking the water, it’s also sort of on the edge of the tundra there, where you can look for miles in one direction and hardly see any trees. Although, there are plenty of trees in other places, just not on that edge of the bay there. So Beth went to school her first grade and we talked to her years later when she was in high school and she said, no, she didn’t have any Native people in her school. But when she looked at her elementary school picture, of course, three quarters of the children were obviously Native American. But to her they were just children. Which is such a great story. We came to Vermont for Chuck’s residency. He had a lot of patients that needed more help than he could give them and he really became interested in psychiatry. And we came back to Vermont, fortunately, where his brother’s family and his parents were. So we got to spend his residency there. And I was so happy. I liked Dillingham, but it was a challenge. It was isolated. We bought a house and we were in a real community in Burlington with neighbors and children. It was much more normal. And then we had to go back to Alaska. As I said, Chuck is a very regular, predictable person, but he’s bounced around a lot. So when he went back he was in charge of the psychiatry department. Flying. [Laughs] Beth was in elementary school, Andrew was in second grade, and Amy then started kindergarten the second time we went back. They had been to school in Vermont, in Burlington, which is a wonderful place to live. Still would be. Alaskans are nice people. There’s a camaraderie if you can put up with the crazy daylight and the bad weather. There’s a real togetherness about it all. There’s a social continuity, which you don’t always find back east. Our group there was much broader than it was in Dillingham, which was just those people who lived around us. When we went back we became friends with people who went to the church, the Unitarian Universalist Church there. And those were the people we socialized with and our neighbors that our children went to school with. And it was really an interesting, colorful place to be. And then eventually we thought, “do we really want to stay in Alaska forever?” And Beth was going to be going into high school. She liked it very much there. They all did. But we thought if we stayed there much longer, we’d stay there forever. Like his sister did, and still is. So we decided we really should look for a job back east, and that’s how we got to Cooperstown. There was a job being advertised at the Bassett Hospital, and we were back for something, and came to Cooperstown. We came here in ’74. So, do you have any questions?

BS:
[Laughs] Yes, sorry. I was going with the flow.

DH:
Yeah.

BS:
But how was that moving around so much for you?

DH:
It was predictable. It was slow and careful. It wasn’t unsettling. My parents, once they bought that house, they never moved out of it. It sounds like we’ve had a very disjointed life, but it hasn’t been. I think my goal in life is to keep a lid on it and make life average and predictable. Our three children have done so well, despite the fact that their mother doesn’t have a career. [Laughs] I have an attitude. And so do they. They’re all well academically, socially integrated people.

BS:
And were there any challenges being sort of a, I guess I don’t want to call it a stay-at-home mom, but you know…

DH:
Yeah.

BS:
… while your husband was working?

DH:
Well, the challenge was once the kids were in high school, I wasn’t so much needed. When you’re moving it helps to have one person not working so you can adapt to it. So when I got here I didn’t have the challenges of being in Alaska and moving. I became interested in the League of Women Voters and the Friends of the Library, and the Church in Oneonta, which kept me busy. And volunteering at the hospital, which I did for eighteen years, which was a good way to get to know the community. Anything I have done in the community is because there are fine leaders who set examples. I am a dedicated, sincere follower.

BS:
Sure. Can you tell me a bit about that?


DH:
That was before the new building was built, and we were in the old building. The whole time I was volunteering with Evelyn Kachline, whose husband was at the Hall of Fame, so that was my baseball connection. And she was very integrated in the community and knew everybody. So I knew more people coming and going when I was volunteering there because everybody came through for their appointments. And I knew all the doctors there. [They have maybe doubled the number of doctors], I don’t know. We all had a lot to be proud about. Bassett, and the way its grown and adapted in the community. A lot of things have changed and improved. Like they’ve got midwives birthing. It’s very progressive. People in Cooperstown have a lot to be proud of, and very grateful that the Clarks have been an institution that has done the right things all along. When I was in the League of Women Voters back then we were talking about voters’ rights and the environment. One thing we did get accomplished, we worked hard to stop barrel burning, because we were concerned about air pollution. And people were determined they had the right to burn whatever they wanted where they were. And many of us felt that that was not the right thing, and there were non-burn laws in other states. I got to know Judith Enck, who’s now the EPA director of this region, several states. That was a success story, one of the few success stories the League has had. They finally outlawed it. The interesting story was they would pay no attention to those environmentally oriented people, until one day the incinerator backed up and blew smoke all over the Governor’s Mansion. And suddenly they decided to pay attention to the environment. And so several years ago we got the Anti-Barrel Burning Law passed, which made me happy. Another thing we’ve succeeded in, we were paying a lot of attention to the voting machines, because our voting machines were getting old and decrepit. And after the Gore-Bush election the government paid a lot of attention to the voters’ rights. So they said our machines, we couldn’t use them anymore, because they weren’t handicap accessible, which they aren’t. So locally they said, well we’ll just get nice computerized machines, and some of us in the League and Verified Voting Group realized that those machines were hackable. We worked very hard, we did a lot of praying as much as anything, to not get just plain electronic, computerized machines, to get the paper ballot, which can be counted. Whether they are or not in a close election is another question. But they can count them.

[START OF TRACK 3, 0:00]

There’s a lot the rest of the country needs to do to improve their voting. I haven’t heard any stories about stolen elections in this round. But there had been before, about voting machines that had been hacked into to and altered, or voting machines that didn’t work. I at least feel like we’ve accomplished something on that line. I feel very comfortable lobbying the government to do what we think is the right thing. I was talking to a friend. Chuck, in one of his many other interesting pastimes, is in a German reading group. In high school I learned German and I went to Austria with my friend. And when I came back I finished my third year in high school and forgot more than I remembered, which was a clear sign that my memory wasn’t going to do well. So, anyway, I socialize with his German-speaking group, and I asked one of the very bright ladies there if she wasn’t worried about the weather. And she said, well, she figures it has nothing to do with her, and she doesn’t feel like it’s her responsibility to do anything. And I do. I think it’s all of our responsibility to do the right thing and learn about what’s happened to our environment, and the fact that we put too much carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, and we’re ruining the normal flow of the planet. If you have to put up with bad weather, it may be because you made it, not because you just have to put up with it. Which is when we lived in Alaska, if we had bad weather we just had to take it. But now it’s our responsibility if we’ve melted the ice caps. So, that’s my current strong environmental concern. Along with saving energy, and insulating, and using alternatives. So it’s a lot to worry about. And my friend who figures it’s not her responsibility; I think it is our responsibility. I feel terribly concerned about the people in lower New York State, Staten Island, Long Island, and New Jersey that have just suffered so badly. It’s not their fault. But it is a teachable moment. I don’t remember who said that it’s bad to waste a disaster. Well, I hope we don’t waste this disaster. [Letting cat in room] I have to let my cat in. He’s a very spoiled cat.

BS:
Well, we have a spoiled dog at home, so I understand.

DH:
Do you want to go out? You can go out. [To cat]

BS:
She can’t make up her mind.

DH:
His. All of our others cats have been she, but he’s a he, and he’s very opinionated. I think it has to do with his sex. [Laughs]

BS:
Definitely.

DH:
Oh, I’ll show you a couple of pictures. This is my first daughter. That was the year we worked in Maryland for the summer, a very, very hot place.

BS:
Can you tell me about this car a little?

DH:
Oh, it was my brother-in-law’s car. It wasn’t ours. It was just a basic car in those days. I saw one in the parking lot yesterday. My god! It was beautifully restored.

BS:
What kind is it?

DH:
I think it’s an old Buick. It is impressive.

[Noise on recording]

BS:
And what was Chuck’s job in Maryland?

DH:
He was doing basic healthcare, physicals on poor people there. That’s my mother there.

[Noise on recording]

BS:
Sorry, just the recorder.

DH:
Dear little baby carriage.

BS:
And where was this photo?

DH:
That’s Hackensack. I’ll have to go back to the old homestead. It was built up on a hill, so I don’t think it got drowned in the recent hurricane. And that is Brunswick.

BS:
And are these your children, and your grandchildren?

DH:
Yeah.

BS:
Do you want to tell me about them?

DH:
That’s my son, who lived in Florida. He’s a computer support person. That’s a rented truck and he moved up from Florida where he had been living to Maine. And here he is in Maine with his girlfriend. And he has not married and we do not have grandchildren from him. That’s just fine with us. He had a two people firm and he sold it to the people of Land’s End Financial. There’s a word for it. And they got him a job in Florida. But he eventually wanted to come north and my daughter, who lives in Maine, got him to come up. So he’s working for Maine NPR [National Public Radio]. So we’ve got all our children in New England, even though we’re not New Englanders. We’re New York, New Jersey people. That’s my oldest daughter. That’s Beth and her two daughters. My two grandchildren come in pairs. Beth’s in Connecticut. And she’s a social worker, so she takes after her father. And these are the twins, my youngest daughter, who went to Syracuse Environmental School [SUNY College of Environmental Science and Forestry] for graduate work.

BS:
So what does she do?

DH:
She works for Maine Rivers now. She’s done other things. Her job is to try to get the dams out of the rivers in Maine so that they can get the fish moving back and forth, which is an environmental job and she works hard at it. I guess that’s it, except there are other pictures there. And this is me, we were protesting the pipeline. My main reason for being against the pipeline is because I think we need to be working on alternative energies and not digging up. And it’s so terrible the stories we hear from Pennsylvania. They’re foolish. That was in Binghamton, the EPA [Environmental Protection Agency] had a hearing, and my friends from Middlefield, who were fortunate enough to get a ban against the pipeline. That’s me. So the only good thing about this dreadful natural gas thing is that we’ve gotten to know some really wonderful people who have been speaking out. And tonight the OCCA, Otsego County Conservation Association, is having a dinner and they’re going to recognize two people who have been working hard educating people around the state. And we’re still on the precipice here waiting to see if we’ll be knocked over the environmental cliff, because if the governor doesn’t go ahead with it quickly they’re going to have to start all over from scratch. He has said we’re going to wait and see what the medical effects are; they’re going to do a health study. And they can’t do that instantly enough, so they may have to start over. And if they do it with any integrity, they’re going to have to say it’s going to be bad environmentally. And that’s aside from the fact that they shouldn’t be spending money on a fossil fuel.

BS:
Sure.

DH:
Yeah. It’s just so clear. Fortunately, New York State has held it off long enough to get a lot of people’s attention and knowledge. A lot of good people have put a lot of work into it.

BS:
Can you speak a little bit about your own work, or some of your involvement with this group?

DH:
Let’s see. We had a group here before the gas drilling, before we were even aware that it was coming, on localized community sustainable development. Then all of a sudden it morphed into this problem of having to deal with too much fossil fuel. Originally we were concerned we were running out of fossil fuel, and we were going to have to live more in our own local communities and do less importing food and do more local sustainability. Son of gun, it just turned around, and now we’ve got too much fossil fuel coming. But it is at a great expense. The expense of ruining the water and tearing up the environment. So it all fits together. We really have to make important decisions quickly because there’s so many of us. It’s such a big population dependent on something. Two hundred years ago we didn’t have fossil fuels to use. We used wood, or wind power for sailing. And now we’ve gotten so used to using the fossil fuels. I don’t remember not having them. And my mother, well, my mother would have remembered not having them, because they didn’t have a car when she was little. We need to go back to that non-fossil fuel way of living. And the trains, as I said, I think about these things. The train that connected New York to Washington, because they were all using better, shared transportation.

BS:
Sure.

DH:
We have to move these things slowly and carefully. [Pang from heater] And my fossil fuel just made a bang.

BS:
I know. I wanted to ask you a little bit about this [house].

DH:
We bought this house in seventy-five. It had a furnace that looked like it came off the Queen Elizabeth. It was this gigantic, huge boiler. Now we’ve got a small, more efficient one, but it’s still fossil fuel. So, we bought a car two weeks ago, which is a hybrid, working on battery and fossil fuels, but at least it’s an improvement. A lot to think about in this world, having gone through the last election, everybody’s head is spinning from all the choices to make.

BS:
Sure. I know you mentioned that you do have a garden. Do you want to talk a little bit about your garden?

DH:
In the backyard there’s an arm of the lake, a dry lake back there, or a gully. And it’s about twenty or thirty feet down. In the middle it is a nice flat area and that’s where the garden is. And it’s a source of great joy to me. Maybe not great supporting, I can’t live off the land. It’s lovely. I think I might have some kale there still. I might have some beets. It keeps me in touch with the environment. It could be a lot better if it wasn’t dark in the morning and dark in the afternoon, because it’s shaded down there. [You] do what you can. Well, my son decided to plant a garden this year. I never knew he had any interest in gardening at all, but somehow or another he picked it up. My two daughters don’t have property that would lend itself to gardening. But I think it’s important. If you’re growing something you realize how nature affects things, and even if it’s not cows and milk, even it’s just plants you realize when the seasons come; when the frosts come; when they’re supposed to come; and when they don’t come. This year was so disruptive for the apple orchards because spring started soon, the flowers started coming, and then they had a frost, and a snow, and it killed half the apples in Middlefield Orchard. And that’s not right. I’m going to show you. These are my two oldest granddaughters. This granddaughter, Anna, is in Kenya, Africa. She’s with the Peace Corps. She said she started a garden in her backyard there, in Orinie. It’s south of the capital. I’m blanking on it. She’s out in the bush. She wants to become a nurse, which she’s been doing, giving measles shots. Nairobi, that’s it. And she can see Mount Kilimanjaro because they’re up in this high plain. She sent a picture of it. So she started a garden there. She said they only grow beans and corn. I think she’s going to be in for an education as to what wonderful varieties of vegetables she can grow. And this is her older sister. This is Nellie. Nellie is in Pittsburgh; she graduated in library sciences. She wants to do archival work, which is something related to your work.

BS:
Sure.

DH:
And that’s Beth, their mother, who’s a social worker. And their father’s an environmental consultant with a group over in Connecticut. I feel very lucky to have three healthy, well-suited children. Things have worked out well for them, and for us. I’m terribly lucky. Through no effort of my own things have worked out well. Life has been more complicated for our siblings, Chuck’s and mine, but not for us.

BS:
And do you think, I mean obviously your granddaughter started a garden and you said your son did as well, do you think, I mean, that you’ve passed along a lot of the values?

DH:
Yeah. I think they’re aware of the importance of the environment. Now, these grandchildren, those are my little twins. They’re eleven. They live in a world of imagination. These two. They live for fairy stories and all those wonderful series for young, pre-teen children. They’re variations on mythology and Egyptian, Greek, Roman, and all those. So they live in a world of magic. I don’t know if they’ll turn around and get their feet on the real ground or not. [Laughs] They’re very into the literary side of the family.

BS:
When your children were growing up, did you incorporate a lot of these, you know, having a garden, and I know Will [Walker] said that you cut your grass with an old-fashioned….

DH:
Oh, mower! Everybody should do that! No, we’ve got a power mower down in the lower part of the lawn. But I use the push mower up here. And I have a sign out there that says the lawn doesn’t have any herbicides and pesticides on it. Yeah, that was another thing the League of Women Voters was concerned about, not putting herbicides into our drinking water. I think they’re well aware that we have to stop and think about what we’re doing. There’s a town in Hudson, Quebec, which is a suburb of Montreal. And they decided to stop using herbicides on their lawns, and to make it a law. We had a film about that recently, and it’s so un-American, this is Canadian. No, we don’t need to put that weed killer on our lawn and drink it. We’re so used to being inundated with commercial improvements, better living through chemistry, and we get brainwashed. So friends of mine on the next street over managed to get this film shown, and they also have a sign that says no herbicides and pesticides. It goes along with my thinking that there should be a better way for everything. Things should be done right.

BS:
And along with your environmental activism, I know you went to a few anti-war protests?

DH:
Yeah, we’re still doing that anti-war [protesting]. Eleven years. We were trying to stop the government from going into war with Iraq, which I think most people would agree was a bad idea. And now we’ve got so many soldiers coming back with PTSD. They’ve only stirred things up; they haven’t improved them. We haven’t been able to stop protesting, because they’ve gotten out of Iraq, but they’re still making things worse in Afghanistan. So I have a small group of friends who are Quaker, Presbyterian, and Unitarian. We’re still anti-war. It just happens the Post Office is opposite the Hall of Fame. And we’re on the federal property. We’re not protesting the Post Office. And we’re not protesting the Hall of Fame. But we get all the people who come by. And I wish I could have a documentary video to run through all the people that we’ve talked to over the years. An hour a week. Wednesdays. We’ve never missed a week despite three feet of snow. One of our members has died, and a couple of them have gotten old and infirm. We’ve all gotten older. But it’s very uplifting to be with each other, because we all agree with each other. [Laughs] And my sign is against drones, because I think it’s self-defeating for us to be killing one person along with the other ten family members. I think it’s all wrong. And in a democracy we have a right and a responsibility to say what we think. Unfortunately, I think ten years from now people will say we shouldn’t have been doing that. Drone surveillance is fine. But when they do this targeted killing of people that nobody legally says, okay, this person is responsible for this and that, it’s just the CIA who decides it on they’re own they’re going to do it. And if it worked, you might be able to ignore the illegality. But it doesn’t work. More killing. Yemen is where they’re busy trying to get rid of people, but they’re doing it in such a clumsy way. It may be clever to target one person, but if they go and kill their family members and innocent children, it’s very self-defeating. And nobody’s paying attention to that except a group of annoyed people. Right now I’m thinking that climate change is more of a problem, because those people over [there], right now, the ones in Jordan that are next to Syria, that are next to Gaza, they’re going to be losing their normal economy because of the weather too. And we’re responsible for that. They’re fighting right now, and I don’t know who started it, but I know that they’re not doing the right thing fighting in Israel today. Again. As they have been for a long time. When you think they’re going to be able to talk to each other, they don’t. It just seems like they waited until the election was over so they could start stirring things up again against each other. But anybody who thought we were going to be able to come in with our opinions, and our guns, and our soldiers, and straighten things out, they were sadly mistaken. And everybody knows that now. I can see why they wanted to do things in Afghanistan, but it hasn’t been the right way. And it’s not possible to go in and improve things in Afghanistan by fighting. Since the time of Alexander the Great they haven’t been able to. These people are up in their mountaintop villages and their tribes, and you just can’t expect them to react the way the Indians did in North America. Take it over. I don’t know why we’re doing it, but we started and we can’t stop. And I’m so thrilled to have my computer. I get letters from environmental groups and people who want to save the environment. And they’ll say sign on this, and sign the petition, and I can print it out and mail it to the governor, or mail it to [Joseph] Martens, the head of the DEC [New York State Department of Environmental Conservation], or I can send it to my congressperson, or I can send it to [President Barack] Obama. They keep saying they want to hear from me. Well, they do. Actually I don’t think the environmentalists they have at the DEC want to hear from me. They had an open hearing, they asked for my opinion, and they got it. The pipeline people had a hearing down in Oneonta. They didn’t want to have a hearing here, but the people who were affected insisted that they not overlook us, so we got to tell them our opinion. It was very touching. It’s really so inspiring when you’re working with a group of people. I should say, full disclosure, I have no interest in sports, [laughs] in spectator sports.

[START OF TRACK 4, 0:00]

Baseball. Football. But I can see why people get wrapped up into enthusiasm the way you would in a football game for your team. So that’s the kind of team attitude we had down at the pipeline hearing, or at Albany when we had a march through town from the Hudson River to the Capitol. And we had our signs and our friends, and we were saying we didn’t want to have gas drilling. We were all so right. [Laughs] We were all convinced. We were totally invincible. On the subject of sports, this is my husband. He’s been into sports all his life. He was a runner and a high school athlete, and a college scholarship runner. Then he got into snowshoeing in Alaska. And we got to go all sorts of places to snow shoe races. Up to Lake Placid, and Paul Smith College. And we even went up to one in Maine with people from Quebec.

BS:
And when was this?

DH:
Oh, he’s been doing this ever since we moved to Cooperstown. Every year. He used to run his own snowshoe races here up at Glimmerglass Park. The snow has been so pitiful in the last two years we haven’t done it. I myself don’t snowshoe, because I love skiing, cross country skiing. Now he’s into competitive swimming for seniors. Masters’ swimming. And we swim in the lake everyday in the summer, regardless of how miserably cold it is. The water is usually about the same, so when it’s above sixty-five in the water we go swimming. And it’s just wonderful. And we used to swim at Fairy Springs with the village. Then they made us stay inside the lifeguard area. So we swim across the lake now, at the Sailing Club, where we can swim as far as we want. Which isn’t very far. It’s one of the many things [that goes along with] being married to a person with a great deal of imagination. I’m the one who got him addicted to going to the [Glimmerglass] Opera though. The Opera was at the high school. I used to go with one of my children. And then he started. And now we’re both addicted. We love the opera. I used to be on the concert series committee. One of my other pastimes is making posters. That’s the love of my life, on my computer. I used to do it by hand for Friends of the Library programs, or League of Women Voters. But now I can get my computer program and print them out. It’s a lot of fun. I like to print out pictures like this. My son-in-law, my youngest daughter’s husband, likes to take pictures. So I can print out his pictures. I get in the mail every couple of days, some good group will send me, cards from Audubon, or National Wildlife. I don’t use cards anymore, because I like to make my own cards on the computer and use the program where I can write the words in. That’s a great joy in life to have that. And I like to make signs when I’m standing against the war, and something else will come up and I’ll print a new sign out. I have a picture of in there of me, when we thought the war would be all over when Obama got elected. And I have all of my signs spread out on the front lawn and I retired those. Sent them off to be recycled. Unfortunately, the war didn’t end. I’m still making new signs. For a person who doesn’t like to speak quickly in public, I get to think about what I want to say and make a sign, which satisfies me.

BS:
I mean you seem to have this creative side, you said you like to take photos and make signs….

DH:
I like to make tape recordings too, because I like to record things on the radio, environmental programs or something like that. And books on tape, I’m always listening to books on tape. I have more time to listen than I do to read.

BS:
Sure.

DH:
So the library gives me a good supply. I just finished a wonderful book about a young man from Burundi. Remember Rwanda, all the terrible genocides? [It’s] a wonderful book about this African man who came over speaking only French. He had been in medical school in Burundi. Then they started killing the Tutsi, and he was a Tutsi, although he couldn’t tell it. He couldn’t really tell one difference from the other. So he escaped from the luck of a friend of his who had enough money to get him out of the country. And it’s a wonderful story, making me think of my granddaughter in Kenya. Our church also supports a group in Mali, Africa, a school where this wonderful person started education for the children, an African person. His name is Yoachou. And our church raises money to pay for the schooling, like what would be the tuition for children there. There are fifty children that we pay for. In the northern part of Mali, not where he is, but up by the desert area, the Al Qaeda people have come in. It’s kind of an isolated desert area that wasn’t very populated. Now the federal government is going to have to figure out what we’re going to do about that. We’re having another meeting Sunday at church. Chuck and my oldest granddaughter went to Mali to look at the school two years ago. I did not go. That was one of his daring things to do in life, which I bowed out of. And my granddaughter, Nellie, had studied some African history, and she was delighted to go. And now her sister is in Africa. It makes you so much more concerned about another part of the world when you have a family member [there], a wonderful family member. She’s a wonderful girl, very idealistic, Peace Corps type. Athletic. Another distance runner. My oldest daughter is married to another do-it-yourself athlete. He’s a marathoner, biker, runner. Thanksgiving we’ll all be together. There’s a big race where ten thousand people run in Manchester, Connecticut. He’ll be one of them. And my other granddaughter who’s here, not the one who’s in Africa, but she would run if she were here. I don’t know about the twins, they’re not athletic. They’re into fairy worlds. [Laughs] They have never been strong enough, except mentally. So that’s the sports thing. Now that I don’t have to rake so many leaves I need to get back into the gym. Which is another wonderful thing that we have in Cooperstown, a lovely gym. I used to do yoga there. I get a little dizzy when I do it. I haven’t figured that out. I should go back and use the equipment now that I’m not swimming in the lake and haven’t been for a month.

BS:
Have you been members since it opened?

DH:
Well, this gym, yeah, we were members of the old gym, which is now part of the Hall of Fame. Chuck didn’t do much in the gym, until he started swimming. He would skip lunch and go run outdoors, so that he could compete, which is wonderful. It’s kept him in very good shape. I’m very grateful. I’m very lucky. Even though he had that broken back, and then he had been running too much. And in the hospital he had surgery again, and now he doesn’t dare do it.

BS:
Yeah.

DH:
Yeah. We’re grateful they patched him up. We’re very lucky at our age. There’s a lot of patching up that goes on.

BS:
Well, we’ve gone a little over an hour and a half, so….

DH:
Oh, good!

BS:
Is there anything else that we didn’t talk about that you’d like to talk about?

DH:
Probably, but I can’t remember it. As I said I have such an empty mind. I live by notes now, lists of things to do. It’s such a great thrill to go over and cross them off. So I’ll have to show you Lady Ostapeck’s pictures out in the hall.

BS:
Yes, I would love that on our way out. Well thank you so much, I really appreciate you taking the time to sit down with me.

DH:
It’s very strange to have this one sided conversation. I’m used to asking people questions.

BS:
Well, we’ll get together again and you can ask me the questions next time.

DH:
Yeah, that’s terrible. [Laughs]

BS:
Well, thank you so much.



Duration

30:00 - Part 1
30:00 - Part 2
30:30 - Part 3
12:05 - Part 4

Bit Rate/Frequency

128 kbps

Files

Citation

Britney Schline, “Dorothy Hudson, November 16, 2012,” CGP Community Stories, accessed July 19, 2018, http://cgpcommunitystories.org/items/show/136.